Written by: Noah Learner Tags: community, jobs-career, critical thinking, content
Published: Jul 25, 2025
Watch the fireside chat interview from July 17, 2025:
The current anxiety in the marketing world is a direct result of how prepared an individual is. True job security comes from taking personal accountability for your own upskilling, which in turn reduces stress and reveals opportunity.
Quote: "The amount of stress people feel is often a function of how well they've prepared and upskilled themselves for this moment... I try to remind people we are each responsible for our own skill sets. It's up to each of us to take accountability for what we know and what we do. When you do that... that reduces stress."
Consistent effort over a period of time, with iterative improvements, compounds.
I compared notes with Andy on how much time he spends upskilling each year. As an agency owner, Andy is learning and honing his craft while he works – about 55 hours a week, which is about 3,000 hours per year.
Andy says, "The difference is, when you do this long enough, you realize that these things give you cumulative advantages."
As a director at an agency, I frame my self improvement as a time commitment on top of my work day: 400 to 1,000 hours a year of self-improvement outside of work:
When I say that number, it's scary for many people, but I think that's what's necessary to be at the top of the game.
Instead of looking at keywords and traffic first, do an exercise where you start with the conversion point (the form or purchase) and ensure every preceding element is built to support it.
Andy says: "Why are you putting cheese on a broken mousetrap? I think digital marketing should be done backward, starting with the contact form, then the calls to action, then the service page that has the call to action. If you do that, you will generate leads even if there was no Google."
"I think that's what a lot of marketers miss. These pages need to handle your prospect's questions and objections. Objection handling is the key to lead gen. Just one or two unanswered questions will kill the lead, so pages have to be comprehensive—not for a search engine, but for a person." - Andy Crestodina
The most powerful use of AI isn't to write mediocre content. Try using it as a fast tool for gap analysis; identifying what's missing from your content, what claims are unsupported, and what your audience doesn't even know they need to know. Then write those things.
Quote: "You could say, 'What are the most important things that my audience does not yet know?' Humans could never do that... Human brains are very bad at spotting things that aren't present, but AI is amazing at it."
Andy is clear that the two formats that will always outperform and remain relevant are original research and strong opinions. These make your brand a primary source, and therefore citable.
We know what works: "The two formats for content that will forever outperform are original research and strong opinion. This was the BuzzSumo research from years ago, and it's way more relevant now because of AI. AI cannot create original research. AI cannot create valid thought leadership."
It's easy to get thrown off by the latest jargon and industry news (like vector embeddings or AI model releases). Andy's approach is to ignore the noise and focus entirely on what your reader or customer actually cares about.
"I really don't care because my reader doesn't care. The marketing leader doesn't care... I'm not taking any notes in that session because I'm pretty sure it will not affect anything I'm doing and will have zero impact on lead generation." - Andy Crestodina
Now this is one of things that surprised me the most from our chat: Technical SEO dogmas like "never duplicate content" should be secondary to conversion. If a testimonial or piece of evidence helps convert a visitor on a specific page, it should be on that page, even if it also exists on five other pages.
Imagine that your reader doesn't need to go anywhere else to get enough information to make an informed decision.
Andy says: "Make each page a masterpiece of search and conversion optimization. What you see is all there is. That page has to do the whole job... So I recommend duplicate content, if it's evidence that supports the sales message on that search-optimized page."
Some of the most valuable conversations and learning opportunities have moved from public social media feeds to private, high-trust environments. Join our SEO group, attend a meetup, participate in a mastermind or take a Maven course.
"Private communities are absolutely where it's at. That prophecy came true... I'm in a mastermind group. If you're not in one, start one. It's free. Find three people who have the same problems you do... It gets real fast and it's super high value."
Building friendships
Kindness
Giving
Elevating others
Creating signal
Treating each other with respect
Diminishing others
Gatekeeping
Taking without giving back
Spamming others
Arguing
Selling links and guest posts